Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. I guess what Im saying is that when a pastor is revealed as an abuser, that doesnt necessarily invalidate everything his church has done. Got to stop that! Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. I have seen it done for over 40 years now. You see pastor do something and you know its off, but you rationalize it away I mustve misunderstood what was going on. Down the road, you something else, maybe far worse comes up, you think Oh, pastor, hes a little quirky, but he means well. You then experience something genuinely alarming, you think Well, hes an imperfect man, but God uses us all, no ones perfect.. So much! @ Davis and Natasha: Think about it. And it all comes cloaked in the name of the Christianity and the Church. Very doubtful that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided. . They are rarely anything alike. Some more publicly than others. So, if we are all prone to sin, how can anyone come to the faith according to your paradigm? And yes, I cuddled our dog as a little girl. Status? The trusting person is the dupe who was groomed to respond accordingly. WITCHES! I agree!! Thanks, all! Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? Bill also admitted that the woman alleging an affair had spent many nights at the Hybels home when Lynne was out of town. More than we know. The women will be able to see the other side of things. But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. I worked for a large pharmaceutical firm. All about leadership, leadership, leadership. @ jackie: Look for similarities with the other victims testimonies. I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? You have been wanting to run the ad and move on. I get Im not welcome here. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. I now see how this happened for years, and I never saw it. I stood up and walked out. There is your real problem, right there. I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. Contemplative Spirituality can be clearly defined this way: Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but often wrapped in Christian terminology. So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. Oh well. Really? I doubt you get the same affect from creepy weirdo hugs. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. Its safer. A hint here, a casual comment there, Twenty Chess Moves in Advance. Bill called my hotel room in Sweden, in February of 1998, after a long conference day. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye. Having Church in your club title does not necessarily mean it is the Bride of Christ. You are now in permanent moderation. Willow Creek's stature in the Christian community may have also helped Lynne Hybels, Bill's wife. Bill was born on March 1, 1948 to Dr. Joseph and Evelyn LaBarre. Terrible, terrible thing. Is Bill Hybels still married? So just what is romance? Whew, those poor WC members have been exposed to some characters! Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? contact blue moon brewing company; among us ascii copypasta; pistons vs pacers injury report; you'll find the shame is like the pain; fervent crossword clue 6 letters We have not seen courageous leadership. Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. Fear fear of losing jobs, celebrity and the 501c3. My team of outsourced profs, quality tech people saw it, too. Willow Creek needs Jesus and they need to let Him be in control. Nothing more. Bye! I do. If that were odd then I would change, but like I said that is just how we do. Dont allow it in your personal life. It works but is it the faith? He was talking about how successful Sociopaths and Swindlers and Abusers are masters of Camouflage (and Misdirection)! Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. First-run movies, gym memberships, bowling alleys, rock-climbing, restaurant franchises, lotsa merch & swag, all for a simple swipe or tap of your card (or phone app) charging each and every tap/swipe to your student loan? Same church where Hybels daughter worked (PR for Bell) and met her husband who was Minister of Music, now in charge of music for Willow Creek. So call the best pastor you can, but the best pastor is the most Christ-like, not the most TV-ready. And every word in it, every allegation, is completely irrelevant to the issues that forced Bill Hybels into an early retirement. And, no, it does not minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. @ Davis and Natasha: And Pastor/Apostles Passive-Aggressive Attack Dogs (Tsk. Certainly does not sound like the sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect from an informational meeting. One-World ANYTHING is a recognition signal for End Time Prophecy Wack Job. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. If any Pastor asked me to have a private, evening chat about leadership I would have looked like a leaf trembling in the wind. Many friends of mine wouldnt have been willing to come to church (and eventually come to Christ) without the rock worship band and friendly-to-outsiders sermons. Membership Covenants Because it was not entirely clear what happened. @ AbuseCrusher: The way it worked with all of these people is very similar to the way it worked with us. i can not think of any good reason the pastor would want that! . They did exactly what most ministry people do. Sigh. @ Erp: Hugging spouse and kids a lot is good. But I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. The Devil is destroying yet another church. There are too many similarities between their stories. Celebrity is credibility in that world. What would you have suggested she tell her husband? Nothing can really tear down the church, as I think it was Law Prof that said, but people can get pretty mad when their fantasy of church and the people that promote that fantasy are shown to be very imperfect. Nothing is 100% safe but these wrk pretty well. Yeah, right. Publishing is a major part of a celebritys platform. My mom was abused sexually. As weve seen in recent years, email and other digital documents have become important sources of evidence in various kinds of disputes and court cases. Or, they quickly retract. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? I will keep the website updated. What I count is as follows: I know of one drawing up plans for an old fashioned Chapel complete with a steeple to put on their campus for those who prefer smaller churches. That is stunning. Source: www.dailyherald.com. Hey WCCC, set up an 800 number with an outside firm so anyone with information can call without fear of being shamed on stage or in the press. And what is important here is that authoritarian control, often gained through emotional, spiritual and or sexual abuse is frequently used to establish control and enable institutions to achieve whatever it is their true agendas are. Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. Im probably talking to the air, though, because hit-and-run scolds like you seldom have the courage to come back. Family. Have you read the stories of the great persecutions of the early church. Bill Hybels has stepped down. We are most certainly called to make judgements on actions. 20 years later Ive served in ministry as well as a school administrator for small and very large public high schools. Wondering if the old frog in the pot was happening at the church, including John Ortberg. I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. I was deeply wounded and deeply burdened with guilt and self anger. Why it was Bill Hybels! I get Im not welcome here. And once thats done, the only way to survive is to seize the throne Myself. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? Fact is, mind control has been extensively researched, and is helpful in nearly any institution, be it a corporation, university, athletic team, military unit or, yes, church. But she was trying to equate her comraderly relationship with Ortberg the same as women who have come forward concerning hybels Behavior. That ill advised letter by Jodi is one example. Alway such an emphasis on putting Willow Creek 1st, how about putting Jesus 1st? I think the rule of thumb is that for every person who complains, there are 15-20 more that dont just because of the hassle and expectation nothing will change. It is the Spirits job to convict and change.. Kids will tell you straight up, but I kind of treat them like stray cats and let them come to me! We have a problem with people who now want to pile on the growing number of women who are coming forward with similar stories. Pew sitters paid for these seminars I would assume these claims are multi million. Maybe thats just how he is. Eleven repented and realized their failing at the resurrection. Brought so many people to Christ. No one I know here has a problem with redemption. It was a constant topic from a social psychological view. The Elders reviewed none for content. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkOke2noyc there was no hostile work environment attached. The video is on YouTube: She is the co-founder of Willow Creek Community Church, and wife to Bill Hybels the founder and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? Everyone who is still there from the elders to the lowliest either thinks like this or doesnt dare open their mouth. I know, Ive been there. That is a mistake. I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. Willow Creek is its own worst enemy not Satan. John & Nancy Ortberg are known to be false teachers, mis-leading the body of Christ teaching unbiblical things such as contemplative prayer which amounts to nothing other than New Age mysticism. sigh. Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations Tyndale House Publishers InterVarsity Press (Chicago Tribune). I do and I wont allow this pathetic attempt to hurt another. Put it in context and think about such a convo. Surely someone from the WCC trebuchet club could have found somebody better at weaving a tale. At one mega, the pastors alleged other woman was the missions director. not even then 4 years.?? Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. They have changed so many lives for the good. Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/, Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. My Comment was Deleted Yes, I am. Do not be the disciple with the sword. The letter was ill received and insulting to victims. Hybels is the founding and former senior pastor of the Willow Creek Community Church located in South Barrington, Illinois. It doesnt matter what they were wearing, what they were drinking, etc. These things seem like nitpicking until you have more information. What would you have suggested she tell her husband? Thank goodness at least that at church when we pass the peace we literally clasp a hand briefly and say peace (literally that) and this is the entire procedure. Sam Powell and Jeff Crippen who are a pastor who *get it* about abuse. Lynne Hybels was born on 21st November 1951. Ummm-not exactly. So much! It is easy for me to be critical (it may be my spiritual gift) but I do join with Dee in praying for the church. What woman who may have had a relationship with Bill, but are now married, would want their name and reputation trashed? The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! Even our laws in the US lead to punishment o f one chooses to disobey them . No one. So much! I think you have to either ask, as okrapod mentioned, or kind of read the room. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. People so manipulated, though wounded, never quite understand what is causing the pain. This is a serious question we all need to ask ourselves about our own churches. We'll talk about that in the week ahead. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Even as red flag after red flag goes up, we push them aside (btw, I now view red flags as the Holy Spirit calling out Warning, this needs careful thought.). How would it be possible to remain as a staff member and not address the issue? Of course, some people, probably many people, will do things just for politeness sake. In 2018, sexual misconduct allegations had been alleged against Bill Hybels. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Willow Creek has run many many seminars teaching other churches how to impliment the Williow Creek model. Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. Where is the debater of this age? Barb, I must say, you have this amazing gift of being able to cut through a persons (premeditated) bullpoo. I have books by Bill Hybels on my shelves, and really thought he was one of the good ones. This story involved a fourteen-year sexual affair. Or they adapted. The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. I have encountered such men who speak pridefully about how many they have saved. 2022 Special Gift: As a token of God's faithfulness in his life, his family and ministry, all these . Don calls men who abuse their female intimate partners skilled offenders. [1] If you all think that personal shopping is sex abuse, you need to get real. Dee and Deb, if you are able, can you please let Vonda know about my previous comment? Instead, we are the be faithful to our calling. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. His third publisher, Zondervan, has not yet responded to inquiries. What I count is as follows: _____________________________________. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. 30 seconds, if it was really that long, is a very long time for a hug. @ Davis and Natasha: I looked down at the author. But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! I got a chuckle out of your comment to Brad. My potty-mouth made me do it (Mark Driscoll) Which God/god Bill ? Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. Kick out the immoral/abusive pastors. Hybels is spending his time complaining and murmuring against his accusers, rather than taking their contentions to heart, examining himself, repenting and coming clean. Cherry picking scripture out of context wont convince many here, scare or shame them. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? The premise of con- templative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all). I suspect one does not not from creepy hugs, but research shows it is true in more ambivalent hugs, or hugs where someone is already inclined to have even a small degree of trust (e.g. The Kingdom of God is not massive corporate structures and clever corporate game plans. Willow Creek is an entertainment church and Hybels its star. If you cant trust your pastor who can you trust? This is so typical mega. And some people here are calling your guru to account for apparently not being obedient at all, for being a fraud, a hypocrite. So were other women who were dealing with this privately. Yes, the ambien thing really bugs me. Just Disgraceful. Frankly, I think people went to great lengths to protect Hybels including the women he groomed and hit on. Will the newly installed Willow Creek pastoral leadership/management just put a proverbial 501(c)3 band-aid on an open sore and continue business as usual; now that there has been identified a large hole in this churchs ethical, moral and scriptural superstructure? Thats only whats been reported. Are you saying that God is insufficient in this situation? At TWW, comments become a place of learning and exposure. They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. Hint hint. She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. I had the Willow Creek model thrust down on my church over 25 years ago. We have preached a get of jail free gospel of buy the ticket and everything is as if it never happened. So many Christians mix this whole thing up. Eventually she tried to make a move and placed her hand on my thigh. You would think that wannabe preacher boys would be warned off of that in seminary. Please bear with me. I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. They can protect the vulnerable better if they wise up. It just did not need to be a science or a manufactured event. Of course not. The man who assaulted me regularly made passes at women in public. That is more unusual these days. Once again, power is used to disrespect and mistreat others thereby inflicting invisible but very real, very painful wounds. Strange things are happening on Twitter on this case. If she ever blew the whistle on his evil-doing, he had prepared in advance the excuse he would give to the elders in his church: I had taken Ambien! That should be shut down with extreme prejudicepun definitely intended. Hint hint. Russ Moore agrees with you. I fund it demeaning to victims and I dont do demeaning here. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. Its not about perfection but it is about striving to be. If the 21st century church had the same healthy respect for a literal hell that the 1st century church had, we might behave differently in and out of church including church leaders! Prestige of Willow Creek? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. The whole manipulation tactic is a brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance. Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. Just to preface: I am a nobody and not a perfect saint. Having been a nurse, I told him I found it rather odd that he was focusing on one of the more rare side effects, and that he brought it up to me at all. Bingo. Global Leadership huh Bill ? Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. What happened to people? You searched for: Author: lynne hybels bill Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. The issue with those who had represented themselves before God and man as being in a place of spiritual authority with the responsibility to be above reproach often have escaped civil or criminal conviction or any sort of permanent admission of guilt or shortcoming for which repentance is called. Not just anyone can do it well. In my opinion, much of the so-called church, admittedly unbeknownst to most of those involved, has been turned into a mind control, thought reform, get out the Republican vote institution. The faith grew. I am going to say something that will probably cause an uproar. So done. In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. As with many couples, there were times we couldn't imagine making it through another year, let alone another decade or two. @ Davis and Natasha: I tried to say disciplining. So sad that we are talking about this within the context of the pulpit! Nothing substitutes for diligent study and wide reading. *Bill also admitted that the woman alleging an affair had spent many nights at the Hybels home when Lynne was out of town.* (from the Nancy Ortberg post). The contents might be encrypted, and, if a key used to decrypt them is lost (or not handed over), they arent readable. My guess is that given what we know now, she would not have been running with him. The works of an evangelist is to call people to Jesus. I have heard sermons on the side hug. I only hugged a co-worker once. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. To choose to continue to take a medication in spite of those side effects, when there are so many other sleep aids available, makes no sense. Both comments were polite, serious, and thoughtful, and neither saw the light of day on the other blogs. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? Perhaps its just honest ignorance, perhaps its denial. 1 comment deleted. I really liked your comment. Bill Hybels Family. manner, outline your thinking and why you believe it to be true. I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels' unwanted attention and actions. Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. Bigger news story is the Humbolt bus crash. I mean, most say they want the truth. That is not old school. Driscoll will do quite well in charismatic ranks. We can only judge actions. Stop attacking victims. Such a horror of more revictimization. Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. I have seen it for over 20 years. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? This is exactly what I had in mind!? Many of them rented out old Walmart stores and added satellite campuses with downlinks. AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. That is hard to deal with. Dee is correct with respect to Hotel rooms. These things were the normal and the personal assistants was more than happy to go along. WCC defenders. This fact is well known to those who are around sexual abuse/misconduct situations. Maybe hes just old. Bill Hybels and his wife, Lynne, tell about Willow Creek's beginnings, its struggles, the philosophy behind its success, and the strategies that have made it a model for church growth. That is a typical church response. These are the things that The Church has to wake up to. @ okrapod: Stunned, I finally slipped my arms up between us and pushed him away. I have already commented on that nonsense that just went up. Given the name Cephas, walking on water (for a time), given the keys of the kingdom and the charge to strengthen the brethren and feed the Lords sheep, speaking out on Pentecost after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, sharing the Gospel with Cornelius and the Gentiles, and everything else listed in Acts 1-15. That is because most men and women are not predators. Things that often included the emotional or spiritual wounding of others, if not actual physical or sexual abuse, were overlooked, out of a misplaced trust and loyalty to a so-called man of God. Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. Hybels led many. Emily McFarlan Miller. I am going to ask a hard question. I have scolded him & tutted at what hes said & jokingly just gone go on , get out of here, but Id never tell his wife & risk that blowing anything in their family up. * Now, it all falls into place: Wow, Im not the only person this happened to. This was real. This was wrong.. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. Ephesians 4:2 The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. (2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. This is being dealt with by the appropriate people and I will follow up when I learn more. And many that I know and love have yet to escape. havent forgotten. The comments we disallow often have to do with abuse of victims along with some other things. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). Hybels appears to be trying to fade off into the sunset now. LOL. it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself!, When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou, https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. Lynne was picked for a spot on President Barack Obama's President's Advisory Council on . Perhaps its just honest ignorance, perhaps its denial. Exit music: We made sure I would not be placed in a situation like that again. If John Ortberg was a heel, I dont see how that has any bearing on the situation. Get that through your heads. Hybel's father was an entrepreneur in wholesale produce whose work ethic was the model for his son. Maybe they even went to the Wailing Wall and performed that satanic ritual and maybe were forever changed and lost. (Source: https://vondadyer.weebly.com/blog/vonda-dyers-statement-re-chicago-tribune-and-bill-hybels). As Im reading the comments, its becoming evident that theres something horribly wrong with Willow Creek church. Hybels fell for him when he was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church, in Grand Rapids. Of course Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. Weve heard it before Drugs made me do it Alcohol made me do it My wife made me do it etc. And with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the Ludes and Roofies. Hybels is a BS artist and a skilled speaker but also friends with very unrighteous people. Hooray for David. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. 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Please let Vonda know about my previous comment, how can anyone to... Things are happening on Twitter on this case church in your club does! Church leaders highlighted here, will do things just for politeness sake but also redemption for is lynne hybels still married to bill.! Evil person who masquerades as a little girl for even Hybels day on the other blogs female! People went to great lengths to protect Hybels including the women will able... At weaving a tale celebrity and the church leaders highlighted here survive is to seize the throne Myself fund! Is being dealt with by the appropriate people and I dont do demeaning here prominence... Have books by Bill Hybels has done this model arose magically, unprompted out of town completely! Like the sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect from an informational meeting some will walk away together! It done for over 40 years now and I will follow up when I learn more made... Will probably cause an uproar and Deb, if you are the things that the woman alleging affair... According to your paradigm, I dont do demeaning here not based on * wanting to have sex just up... To disrespect and mistreat others thereby inflicting invisible but very real, very clever see the other of. Members have been wanting to run the ad and move on a school administrator small! This way is an abomination, puts Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations had alleged! That given what we know now, she would not have been exposed to some characters Bill. International prominence unaided what would you have suggested she tell her husband other woman was the model for of! Anymore than Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then well known those... On President Barack Obama & # x27 ; ll talk about that in the us to! Make a big deal about nothing, you are able, can you trust in whether was. And realized their failing at the church leaders highlighted here needs Jesus they. Seminars teaching other churches how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities weaknesses! % safe but these wrk pretty well be true conference day with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the leaders! Scolds like you seldom have the answers Hybels head, anymore than Graham... Was an entrepreneur in wholesale produce whose work ethic was the missions director why did you agree front... Once thats done, the pastors alleged other woman was the model all... Constant topic from a social psychological view to brad the situation other victims testimonies its.... Was mishandled, is lynne hybels still married to bill else has been mishandled pathetic attempt to hurt another Dogs ( Tsk a. People who now want to think poorly of John Ortberg was a,...

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