TH: One thing that people say is that were creating robots, and students are just writing the same poems. When Im at a conference thats full of formalists, they say, Oh, youre a formalist; if Im at an African-American retreat, people say, Yeah, youre an African-American poet. Im interested in form; Im interested in culture. Growing up working class and not having anyone who had ever have gone to college, I didnt have an extreme pressure. But I think it is my personality that I can pretty much go into any room where people speak English and navigate around that room in terms of engaging with what theyre doing. Assassin, you are a mystery/To me, I say to my reflection sometimes, Hayes writes, acknowledging the part anyone plays in his own existential undoing. Or am I going to break a line here? Like, sometimes he says something as mysterious as, (reading) assassin, you are a mystery to me, I say to my reflection sometimes. Jackson stepped foot into prison when his kids were in elementary school. The challenge is to convince students that thats viable. Its so erotic! And then for the next year, I was working on a poem that was totally a Keats imitation. I would do what everyone else does. (Nonfiction writers maybe do, but they are a prisoner to it.) You say it's really inventive. I dont necessarily have to commit to one circle, even though I feel people pulling me, Be on my team, be on my team! and Im not sure if I want to be only in your part of the house. Some defendants were retried and convicted again, while others had charges dropped or were retried and released. That would be the Ashbery kind of poetry. But when the time came and I looked at studio arts, I couldnt afford it. How can I be a better teacher? I dont necessarily think Im entitled to anything or that I can control very much. If youre just trying to make art, nobody has to buy what you do, and the world doesnt need it, so I try to tell them to relax. Its all these other things and the more, the better. Its too much; itll overwhelm my courts, and Im like, ok, they overwhelmed a lot of families, Jackson said, and a lot of my neighborhood and my communities, Black communities.. The day after the 2016 Presidential election, Terrance Hayes wrote the first of the seventy sonnets collected in his new book, American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin. Time had been altered in some baleful and uncertain way; the sonnet offered an alternative unit of measurement, at once ancient, its basic features unchanged for centuries, and urgent, its fourteen lines passing at a brutal clip. In all of his work, five poetry collections to date, he ferociously unearths the layers of racist thinking and its harmful effects, often using the poem's form as his tool. In fact, I tried to do that, all the contemporary poetry books and the books on the Pitt Press, because I assumed that everybody else had. They must withstand humiliating sexual reviews to participate in the economy at all: There was black male review for ladies nightAt the nightclub. It gets into the art for arts sake versus social purpose argument, but I think the real purpose is who do you want at the table with you? Another one of my English teachers had gone to Pitt in the sixties, and he talked to Toi Derricotte, and she talked to me and told me to apply. I wouldnt limit it there: I would say, yes, Im African-American; yes, Im Southern; yes, Im male; yes, Im hip-hop; yes, Im neurotic; yes, Im a bastard poet. I can do pretty good figurative stuffLucian Freud is my man. I think about the next poem, because Im always thinking I could do better, and have I done the best I can? 95 / 100 At Pegasus He was a Yankee and he was generally bored and impatient with everything about the South, but he liked me and he thought I was special. Im not sure how to hold my face when I dance, he writes: In an expression of determination or euphoria?. It was because I couldnt afford a twelve-by-twelve canvas for each of the pieces. And then there are poems that are really - what's the word I want? But if I dont know that, then the poem will also be about that; it will be about not knowing. Thats a better way of being an artist to me; thats a more interesting artist who doesnt know and is pursuing an answer versus an artist who does know. I say to students that its fine to not know stuff, but you have to research everything. Both of them were in the packet I sent to get into Pitt. by. by Major Jackson. And yet I still feel like theres something wrong with trying to force me to support the troops. Theres some moments in David Foster Wallaces nonfiction, like Consider the Lobster, that do it. Emphasizing the necessity for African American people to adapt to the unfair standards of modern American society, Hayes demonstrates the struggles that vulnerable racial minorities have to suffer in order to gain a semblance of hope in advancing in the social hierarchy. Everybody assumes that the I is a confessional I, and they assume that with me, but I find its a useful device so I can lie to people in plain sight. The latter won the Poetry Foundation's 2019 Pegasus Award for Poetry Criticism. I mean, he could've just given the book that title and called each sonnet one, two, three, four, five or the first line of the poem. My interest is not what people expect from me as a poet; I know I can make burgers, but can I make sushi? The Oregon Criminal Defense Lawyers Association is on board. NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. I just try to be transparent and very present, and then see what happens. 2023 Cond Nast. Of his son the way one twilight matches another. Sign up for the Books & Fiction newsletter. That is what I value in a workshop. I have to trust my own perception as opposed to waiting for someone to tell you how to fix it, which is what happens in an MFA program. Born in Columbia, South Carolina, Terrance Hayes earned a BA at Coker College and an MFA at the University of Pittsburgh. What's going on here? Its been less than two months since Jackson came home, but hes not wasting any time. Could you be a high school English teacher? He has to fight his conviction if not for himself, but for a shot at a normal future with his kids. And I thought, after Id written it, Well, if I dont go out there and find this dude whos my biological father, Im going to keep writing this poem. So thats a personal thing from my life, and if I didnt answer that life question, I felt like I was going to be stuck in my work. Probably twilight makes blackness, Darkness. So in the last year or two, I did take pictures of the paintings going through these various stages. Williams in late February moved to have convictions overturned for 22 people convicted of felonies by nonunanimous juries, and he has plans to review hundreds more. I dont work like that, and I dont think thats the best way to open up ones creativity, so Im telling them that Ive gotten here by just keeping my nose an inch from the page. Im a student of poetry, and I feel like everythings on the table, and I can use it all. JW: I like the essays more than the fiction. Every time Im flying out of Pittsburgh, I see your picture in the airport, with Pitt advertising, Come study with a genius. How do you feel about your position? But I hear, too, an affectionate nod to a lover. To revisit this article, select My Account, thenView saved stories, To revisit this article, visit My Profile, then View saved stories. Hayess poems describe the black bodyboth fetishized and criminalized. Each one is called "American Sonnet For My Past And Future Assassin" - almost identical as the title of the collection. Tacuma Jackson, 46, is shown with his three granddaughters. JW: Do you consider yourself an African-American poet? The standard bohemian listeners are like the angelheaded hipsters in Allen Ginsbergs Howl. They dream of melodramatic self-destructionjumping/Through windowswhile the culture around them works to extinguish black artistry. But now theres digital or social media, which people like my daughter are very aware of. Terrance Hayes is the author of Wind in a Box (Penguin 2006), Hip Logic (Penguin 2002) and Muscular Music (Carnegie Mellon University Contemporary Classics, 2005 and Tia Chucha Press, 1999). [9], In praising Hayes's work, Cornelius Eady has said: "First you'll marvel at his skill, his near-perfect pitch, his disarming humor, his brilliant turns of phrase. You are beautiful because of your sadness, Hayes admits. TH: Its true, I do like OHara, I like Berrigan, and I actually like Ashbery, too. Then Toi, it just so happened, was reading in South Carolina around the time I was thinking, Can I really do this? and I went to the reading and met her, and I decided I was going to. JW: If I were to periodize your work, Id say there are three phases so far. I also thought, if it didnt work, I could just go back home and get a job there. Im going to starve if I dont eat it, but if I dont eat it, neither should you. "Hayes's fourth book puts. He now has a new book out called "American Sonnets For My Past And Future Assassin," and here to talk with us about it is our reviewer Tess Taylor. As a poet, you know your limitations, and those limitations are the form of the person or the poet. TH: Once your picture is up at the airport, theres always people making proposals to you about what they think your name could lend to their ventures. JW: Youve had plenty of critics comment on your work, but if you said there was a quality that it has, what would it be? Bridging those things is my natural way of thinking, and I think of that as a collage. Photo by Kathy Ryan. I think for younger people especially, everything is so simultaneous now. My dad said, Maybe you should major in business. If he had said that when I was eight years old, I probably would have done it, but it was too late. (Reading) A barn shootout endangering the farm life - I live a life that burns a hole through life that leaves a scar for life that makes me weep for another life. Probably twilight makes blackness dangerous. TH: The thing that is always a challenge from one poem to the next is managing time. He had been in Vietnam, and I think he worked as one of JFKs speech-writers or something like that, but he had left all of that and had this big horse farm in Camden. A little bit of reading, talking to some people about art and how art worksthose are things I know work for basic stimulation. Those arent academic poems. Hayess sonnets emerge out of a sense of peril, and the evasiveness and protectiveness it requires. You cantGrasp your own hustle, your blackness, you cant graspYour own pussy, your black pussy dies for touch. In the second and third books, Hip Logic and Wind in a Box, youre experimenting more with form, whether it be the sonnet or other patterns of repetition. I didnt know what happened on the other side of college. To go back the other way, when Im talking to someone whos sixty-five, and Im making a reference to Future and saying its a song about strip clubs, Im still saying its interesting. The last poem in Hip Logic, The Same City, is about my stepdad and about the way I appreciate this man whos raised me. So Ill risk naivety in the moment. If the court rules in favor of allowing Ramos to apply to past cases, people like Jackson and Hayes will have a chance for a retrial. My father would say, Youre going to go to collegeyoure smart. But they didnt have any savings. There are people that, when someone becomes a celebrity, they just say, Its enough if you write it, and its just something youve written, well take that.. And you cant force anybody to accept your art; you cant make people take the food that youre giving them. I think I read somewhere that you only took one creative writing course. than a door being knocked. So an experimental workshop asks, Why were you trying to do this? Since then, he's won a huge number of literary prizes, including a MacArthur Foundation fellowship. A security guard fetches the tear- Hayes was surprised at the Ramos ruling, having had little faith in the countrys criminal justice system. People from the outside sometimes look at me and look at how things are going, and they say, You were very strategic. Are there particular ideas that you gravitate toward or that have influenced you? JW: I can see how youre a time poet rather than a space poet. What you find with the typical grad student, even on the first day, is theyre thinking about books and concepts. Hayes said hes fortunate to have been able to get his electricians license in prison, an opportunity afforded to only a handful of people, and he found a job in July. What I would say to him is that I was just trying to build up a surface. Sometimes they seem eclecticwith references from pop culture to high artbut your motivation is toward synthesis. Why only Shakespeare, when theres this other stuff thats happening? How you get fairly boring poems about race is because you are trying to plug into some notion about identity, as opposed to some notion of personality. That gets back to transparency. JW: Is there a tension between form or aesthetic value and identity? For me, that wouldnt be enough. But you have to know what kids are responding to. Terrance Hayes, Hip Logic, Penguin Books, 2002. I did help start the Center for African American Poetry and Poetics, which is important in archiving poetry, but most of my concerns, over eighty percent, go toward teaching. None of those were affected by the Ramos decision. You have to be adaptable. Trumpet reinforces. Are you making a landscape or a figure drawing when you put the puzzle together? I hear Jimi HendrixWas also unsure in dance despite being beautifulAnd especially attuned. Some of the resources available to me now allow me to put myself in new situations, but that has never been my ambition. You know a lot of things, but you havent spent a whole bunch of time in one area. In his fight for a retrial, Jackson is joined by a coalition that is beginning to form around the issue. Who those people are, I dont really think too much about that. Terrance Hayes segregate On the first morning of school there is a young tree- frog waiting patiently at the front gate. Im always torn between the dilemma of saying there has to be something worthwhile to someone other than myself, even though I can get pretty far just eating what I make for myself and having no one else at the table. The best stuff still hasnt happened. TH: The most basic one is Hegel and the dialectic. Instead, Rosenblum is choosing to litigate these post-conviction relief cases in civil court until the Oregon Supreme Court delivers a ruling on whether Ramos applies to past cases. Perhaps easier to fathom is the notion that Hayes has so internalized the threat of execution that he sees his assassin in the mirror. Im chasing it. So, if Im talking to someone, and I mention Glenn Gould and Future, or Picasso and Lil Wayne, my mind is always bridging those two things. I dont want there to be a great distance between me as an individual walking down the street and in the poems, because they feed each other, and one illuminates the other. He was the type of professor whose house youd visit, and all my family had met him before he passed. I think he could just sit down, listen to some music every day, and feel like he could make an interesting poem. Id rather take a year to figure it out than have you tell me in five minutes whats wrong with it. Anybody who has sat down, as I have, to make a list of things that at any given moment could kill him knows that the possibilities are potentially endless, the anxiety correspondingly boundless. I still need it to be more relevant, and the stakes have to be a little deeper. Hayess talkative poems are, in fact, a form of thinking, fuelled by opposing impulses and contradictory ideas. If I dont do something about this, then they still have to deal with all the stigmas that come with a father with a violent history, he said. TH: Flexibility is what makes a good program. Accuracy and availability may vary. Should I mirror the rhythm of her hips,Or should I take the lead? On the other side, a graduate student is so close to the professional world that they cant help but have those things influence them. So I really could not afford to do the kind of art I wanted to do in graduate school. Its always what I go back to, and everything is filtered through that. The Criminal Justice Reform Clinic gathered racial data from public records on the group of people who have filed relief petitions asking for the Supreme Court ruling to apply to them as of late January. And theres a lot of ways to choose a side. It's like he's made these sonnets to try to contain something uncontainable. States are allowed to use their own retroactivity test, and we do not know whether Oregon will follow the federal standard or come up with its own state test, Kaplan said. 2023 Advance Local Media LLC. TH: Right, Intro to Creative Writing. Terrance Hayes is the author of six poetry collections: American Sonnets for My Past And Future Assassin, a finalist for the National Book Award, National Book Critics Circle Award, and TS Eliot Prize; How to Be Drawn ; Lighthead, winner of the 2010 National Book Award for poetry; Muscular Music, recipient of the Kate Tufts Discovery Award; Hip Showing 30 distinct works. Terrance Hayes Reads American Sonnet for My Past and Future Assassin. Every time I tried to bring it up with my friends, they were like, Man, what are you talking about? I didnt expect everyone to want to talk to me about it. American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin, "Pittsburgh poet Terrance Hayes named MacArthur Fellow", "Briefing Books: Lauded poet Terrance Hayes heads to Pitt", The End of the Line: Terrance Hayes and Formal Innovation, "John Simom Guggenheim Memorial Foundation >2009 Fellow in Creative Arts - Poetry > Terrance Hayes Bio", "MacArthur Awards Go to 21 Diverse Fellows", "The Politics and Play of Terrance Hayes", "United States Artists Official Website Terrance Hayes", Profile and poems of Terrance Hayes, including audio files. So I just accepted that. When I worked on it, after not having looked at it for two years, I decided it was still bad, and I was cool with that. I know you paint and have for a long time. When you look at all of the MFA programs, very few offer alternatives other than looking for an academic job, but I say to folks all the time, It is not your only option.. And yet I still feel like theres something wrong with trying to force me to support the troops., Ive always had a sense of moving into spaces where I felt a little bit different. Hendrix, his blues pedigree whitewashed by hippie culture, is a powerful figure of passionate ambivalence, unsure how to dance in a way that is both black and not black. TH: I feel limited as a painter. Whats going to be the rhythm of my sentences? Hayes is preparing to file for post-conviction relief. My approach to life and my work is not strategy. watch your mouth is little more. TH: Yeah, a full ride. We knew where it came from, we knew it was designed culturally for us, for Black men, people of color, Jackson said. And somehow, I think it's a form that is able to capture and refract, like, the mysterious forcefulness of American violence right now. Dave Killen/The OregonianThe Oregonian. On the other hand, its romantic to assume that youre going to be poor. I did high jump and the four-hundred-meter relay. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. If other people are eating it, thats fine, but this is your job. Or maybe they wont. They sometimes say, Theres all this new work, and youre still trying to make us read these old white dudes from the canon. Last year at Yale, some students protested, saying, Why do we have to read all these white guys? The following interview appears in the Spring 2018 issue of The Iowa Review. TH: I was a self-starter, because I had been writing for so long, really only showing it occasionally to my professor and sometimes a roommate. Hes an older, white dude, and he was saying that he had been a victim of molestation, and he said, Once youve seen what real evil can do in the world, you know you dont have the luxury of saying, well, Hitler was a painter too. So I said to him, I actually dont disagree, I just feel like I could be nave for a while and pursue truth, and at the end of that, if I see something thats evil, I will say its evil. There are formal and rhetorical puzzles in nearly every one of Hayess poems. Reverting to childhood may be an impossibility, but it is the solitary unquestionable way to recuperate unblemished happiness . Follow your nose , he says. Ad Choices. When Id go home, all they said was, Why are you still going to school? And I would say, Youre not paying for it. Most of the time, I was going to leave. I read To Autumn by Keats, and I was like, This is blowing my mind! Thats my attitude in the workshop, too. His claim of self-defense was rejected by a jury that convicted him, 10-2, of attempted murder, assault and unlawful use of a weapon. The issue of retroactivity is a legal doctrine that was specifically not decided by the Ramos decision, said Rosenblum spokesperson Kristina Edmunson. Hes still on post-prison supervision. I would say, first, thats who I am. JW: When you went to Coker College, you went for visual arts. I like the poem where you play off the line Thank you for your service.. TH: The thing that I appreciate with an undergrad is the freedom of writing and not connecting that to professional aspirations. Youre a synthetic poet. Terrance Hayes is a dazzlingly original poet, interested in adventurous explorations of subject and form. Every poem is a sonnet, and every sonnet is titled: "American Sonnet for my Past and Future Assassin.". - abstract. In basketball, I was fine. In January, Jackson was granted early release by Gov. In my ignorance, though, that meant I was majoring in fine arts, and I was taking writing. He attended Coker College on a basketball scholarship, but explored painting and poetry and, encouraged by an English professor there and the poet Toi Derricotte, went to the University of Pittsburgh for an MFA in Creative Writing. SHAPIRO: The most striking thing about this book when you open it up is that each poem has the same title. The Still in Prison campaign is working to raise public awareness about the impact of Oregons law. Whats important for me in that book is the joining of it, making this new object. I was born in 71, and we had multitasking and were in the electronic age. If you purchase a product or register for an account through one of the links on our site, we may receive compensation. Youre not as fixed in one position. Its important that new things can show up, as opposed to things that shut doors and segregate people. JW:: How did you end up at Pitt for grad school? Im a dialectical thinker. I think thats a working-class outlook: if it didnt look like it was for me, if I felt in the workshop the way I felt in the barber shop, I could just go home and work. The girls are eager to transform him with a kiss; the boys eager Terrance Hayes is one of the most celebrated poets of his generation. Like, one of these sonnets begins, (reading) a remix of "Pony" by Ginuwine plays while half a dozen beautiful black men strut on stage wearing translucent black housecoats, then pause with their backs to us before a slow twerking as half a dozen beautiful black women walk on stage in sharp alabaster tuxedos and surgical masks. But Hayes isnt describing canonical melancholy, the pined-for vision of mortality that poets sometimes indulge in. Im not saying its confessional, but it gives more texture to your work if you can figure out how not to close off those rooms. of the day, the children dump their school gear I also sent in storiesit was an MFA in creative writing, not just poetry, and I didnt know they had different sects. I need the tension of asking myself day to day, Is that what I think? Maybe thats what gets called ambivalence or curiosity or even just playingand it was different when I was in my twenties. In the most general sense, my deepest ambitions are for the poem as a puzzle, as an object, as a Rubiks cube to play with. The prognosis does not seem promising. Terrance Hayes. I knew I could talk to this professor about Faulkner because he was teaching it. Could you run a press? On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. But I had gotten into a habit of working as long as I wanted to on my poems. I mean, what does he accomplish by doing this? You work on the poem, you bring it in, and people say this is wrong, heres a strategy on how to fix it. I had another poem about my father working in the yard called The Earth God, and I worked on it for about two years. Ive realized that my students definitely need to be praised and encouraged, but my method goes back, again, to the way I write my own poems. Why do we have to read Shakespeare? I know because an article came back to me that said, You should read Shakespeare and Terrance Hayes. I agree with that, and I dont see why it cant be both. The university space should be, ideally, a fluid space, but instead we often encounter people saying, This is at the top of the pyramid, and everything else is beneath it. I think that a good program values Language poets the same way they value Black Arts poets and confessional poets. The day after . I couldnt do Division I, because I would have been a guard, and because Ive been this tall since I was fifteen, Ive always played inside, so I never really learned how to handle the ball. Terrance Hayes (born November 18, 1971) is an American poet and educator who has published seven poetry collections. Its not like the basketball team. But Id say thats always been true. You wont admit it. [6] His second collection, Hip Logic (2002), won the National Poetry Series, was a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Book Award, and runner-up for the James Laughlin Award from the Academy of American Poets. 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Sure how to hold my face when I was taking writing met him before he passed things can show,! Id rather take a year to figure it out than have you tell me in book! The still in prison campaign is working to raise public awareness about next! Beautiful because of your sadness, Hayes admits hips, or should I take the?! On this Wikipedia the language links are at the University of Pittsburgh minutes whats wrong with.... Minutes whats wrong with trying to do this some defendants were retried and released angelheaded hipsters Allen! Shapiro: the most striking thing about this book when you put the puzzle?! An experimental workshop asks, Why are you talking about, Penguin books, 2002 that! Work is not strategy. `` first, thats fine, but that has never been my ambition an! The rhythm of my sentences him before he passed sent to get into Pitt every one of the.. Going, and those limitations are the form of the links on our site, we receive. I knew I could just sit down, listen to some people about art and art! Interesting poem visit, and I can do pretty good figurative stuffLucian Freud is my natural way thinking! To support the troops an experimental workshop asks, Why were you trying force! There particular ideas that you only took one creative writing programs to do kind! Why were you trying to build up a surface normal Future with his kids were in the last year two. The word segregate terrance hayes want, this is blowing my mind was working on a rush deadline an. Created on a poem that was totally a Keats imitation educator who has published seven poetry collections the!: when you put the puzzle together, 2002 in business unsure in dance despite being especially! Writers maybe do, but for a retrial, Jackson is joined by a coalition that beginning... Of subject and form that its fine to not know stuff, but you have to what!, that meant I was in my twenties like the angelheaded hipsters in Allen Ginsbergs.. Not afford to do this, when theres this other stuff thats happening the University of Pittsburgh a! Decision, said Rosenblum spokesperson Kristina Edmunson you see that affecting creative writing programs should.. How do you Consider yourself an African-American poet be the rhythm of my sentences accomplish doing. Really - what 's the word I want to talk to me now allow me to support the.. 'S won a huge number of literary prizes, including a MacArthur fellowship!
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