Im not a fan of social media and dont use it. Ontarios knife became procured by the U.S. Army and was issued a National Stock Number, NSN: 1095-01-530-0833 within the Federal Supply System. You are using an out of date browser. Both are Camillus but one has a 1" longer blade. Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. Im pretty sure the 80 doesnt mean 1980 since Ive possessed it at least a couple years prior. Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches blade which was not accepted. Both have leather grips. If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. These bayonets are very similar to the originals so you need to check Ka-bar did not just make straight knives or folding knives. spacer arrangements. As with many uses of military equipment, service members use considerable ingenuity in the field when employing their equipment and therefore, the use of the holes in the blade guard for cordage lashing points may have been a field expedient use of the knife rather than as an intentionally designed purpose. Like every other knife Ive dated, the Camillus knives are challenging in their way. Enjoy! the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. hunting knife. The grip will be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165. You ought to take part in a contest for one of the best sites on the net. The 1954 update calls for the knife to have a sharpened clip point blade and an additional rivet to the sheath. Co., Tidioute;Union Cut. They've put a pretty generous recurve in the blade and shape of the handle plays well with standard and reverse grips. If you can find old knife catalogs, theyre one of the best ways to date and identify your Camillus knives. Among the "bright" finished knives you will find a variance. ? Production date date 3/25/1943. Knife collectors and dealers should still have those catalogs if you can find them. Made after 1989 to 2006 (I think) H Hondapop Joined Jul 18, 2016 Messages 3 Jul 19, 2016 #10 Coastiekevink said: Ok.I'll ask! knives under boxes and paperwork. https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife. The Leather washers may have been replaced with the black ones. Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. Mine is a well-worn obviously military example, with a grey pommel top and worn leather sheath with steel tip. the knife not a saw back. View all posts by Major Hykr. Did Camillus Make Other Brands Knives on Contract? Also, note that not all old Ka-bar knives were used in the war. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. Many GIs bought these knives and carried them during the war in Vietnam, including my father, who bought on in the exchange in Takhli, Thailand, and wore it during missions over North Vietnam. One is the "Shark.". This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. Both products contained a second active ingredient, salicylanilide. by Colonel666 Sun May 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post 76, #4). Each contractor had their personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. In all other ways, it totally resembles the pilots survival knife distributed to the military in the 1950s. From the picture you can see that the length of the hilts are different. Before this requirement, knives of several types were procured by the individual branches of the military and dispensed to their members. You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. Camillus is an old name in American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876. Cole would soon file for bankruptcy in 1982, selling the Ka-bar brand assets to American Consumer Products, subsequently moving the new headquarters to Solon OH. and it's variations check out Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points # 8 right here Bayo Points 8 Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. head pommel. Besides showing you how to date a Camillus knife properly, I also give some tips to avoid falling into the fake vintage Camillus knife scam. I would love to see a picture of the knife. Hoping you guys can help. These markings will usually show on the tang since they are less likely to wear and be scratched off there. In fact, I believe that learning how to date a ka-bar knife requires more attention to detail and a couple of more moving parts than when we were dealing with the Kissing Crane knives. That is some inspirational stuff. 5679 L36: WW II Army Air Corps knife. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. WW2 CAMILLUS *Air Force* Folding Machete Survival Knife w/Guard $79.00 20 bids $12.50 shipping Ended USMC US M3 Case 1943 Fixed Blade Fighting Knife Stacked Leather Handle & Sheath $314.00 14 bids $15.49 shipping 3d 5h U.S. M-1 GARAND / HANDLE SCALES and PARTS ( See Discription ) $17.50 2 bids $13.17 shipping Ended Each manufacturer would like to put its spin on things. camillus knife identification. steel domed rivets. It is well preserved and stored away since my discharge in 1966. (222) $59.00. I personally looked into every draw and found these Folding Knives from Camillus Cutlery Folding Knives Handle Color Black Select from a variety of quality Camillus and Western folding knife styles and folding knives that include liner locks, lock backs and frame locks. The design features for this knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers, and training developers. I hope this helps. by MITCH RAPP Mon May 27, 2013 5:42 pm, Post Appreciating the persistence you put into your site and in depth information you provide. In most cases, this wont give you the exact year/ date/ timeframe, but point you to the era when the knife was made. Major Hykr is my blog site to chronicle my hiking and backpacking experiences. I appreciate the vote of confidence . You must log in or register to reply here. Later, when we received individual survival and flotation gear, the knife scabbard was sometimes sewn into the pocket where a .38 special was stored during Vietnam days on the survival vest. See Picture for identification. The blade is very sharp but has surface deterioration and the guard seems rather dull. I have a one of the knives that came out of a survival kit. Even if the Ontario Knife Company discontinues their production and the DoD phases them out of their inventories, the knife will be around for commercial purchase. Both have black plastic pommel. Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. That is surely a lot of information to keep track of. Furthermore, standardization of equipment reduces costs upon the logistical system. Your guidelines seem to contradict themselves:The knife has a thin, pinned pommelWW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinnedWhich is it: they are pinned or they are not?Please let me know, than you. The handle was cut from the same belt using a sharpened piece of steel tubing to make washers then tightened down with a nut off an old tractor head. Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. What is the white dot on the handle? During the war, they produced over 17 million knives of various type and spec for the military, more than any other knife maker. The knife was probably modified by a previous owner. J5 Forest King etched with prototype J-5 on the blade. I've seen and/or handled eight bright finished examples besides the one I own and your pictures are the first examples of the parkerized ones. Interesting information. All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives, Post To recuperate some of the money that they had spent producing blades and knife components, Marble offered a civilian version of the knife to the public in 1961. They all now have similar appearances, a conformity if you will. This is usually where I first look at when dating knives. I do know that it has the serrated spine and in outward appearance may be an original except for the handle. By contrast, the current DoD procurement process is much more refined and regulated. The knifes performance was dependent on the users knowledge and skills. The current edition of this document is Aerospace Standard SAE-AS-8662. Thanks again for writing about this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings. If you have a collector around, check with them to see if they had kept such catalogs. USMC next to the current repro which graphically shows the difference. surely wasn't in Vietnam unless it was with a tourist. Price $15,000.00, #5665 L66: This is the prototype for the WW II Army Air Can't recall seeing. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. If the knife does not have the leather handle, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market. Phil, I also picked up another old Camillus that has no dates on it whatsoever. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. Here is an earlier & longer pilot (aircrew) survival knife by Camillus aka, the Folding Bolo- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete a.jpg Army Air Corp Emergency Machete.jpg Here it is folded- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete j.jpg You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. The latest dated pommel stamped Camillus 5733 is 3-1985. Thanks! To re-arrange a genuine item like this would be quite a task. of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the The knife has been in continuous service with the Department of Defense for over sixty years. The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. Made after march 1985 to 2006. originals and always set off an alarm when looking for an original S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, stagged Rosewood with brass pins Same as above but handle more rounded. Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. Im assuming the knife is an earlier production but, as its a 5 inch blade, it has to be after 1961. As the development and testing process began to take shape, updates to the original specification documents were published. Any opinions? However, the registrations for all registered products containing salicylanilide as an active ingredient have been canceled. touched them in anyway, as you see them is how they were in the showroom. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. I assume was the same for my brethren in the fixed wing as well. Here is an example what I'm talking about, this is the grouping of Mark 1 knives with the designation of MARK 1 on the ricasso and treated blades. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. I am trying to find any information on a 7 inch U.S. Camillus. by orvet Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm, Post Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. However, the essential features of the knife have remained constant throughout the life of the knife. While that might make it harder to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is, though, it is a blessing in disguise sometimes. Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. It was used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish. These are the true originals that went to the war and every other one after that was made after the war. It doesn't sit flush my guess is it was replaced. Held off rust well, and it is pretty solid. with their design. I just want to know its history. I believe before it made its way into the survival kit it went on the ALSE vest. It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different "S" Cards and drawings, dates, etc, associated with these knives However, the business was bought by the Brown family in 1902, who then moved the company out to Olean NY instead by 1910. 5684 S50: Dated 8/21/1945 this design uses the Mark 2 blade, Most knives I seen are marked 10998 or some other number not marked on my blade. Eventually the U.S. Navy adopted the knife after failures on the Mark 1 and renamed it the U.S. Navy Mark 2. blade with S numbers. The serrated spine on this knife is part of the functional requirements for this knife. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY These items I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. Very nice! Bruce Mergele, QMC, USNR-Retired. After vetting the information against the published government standards for this knife and the government procurement process, what emerged was a unique story of an iconic knife that has found its way from the military to the civilian outdoor world and into the hearts of many owners and users. Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. Finally Ive found something which helped me. Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. and sold through the PX system as well. The knives will be sold as a group only. Once you open the link you can either scroll about have way down and look for the title "bright blades", or put it into the find function and let the machine do the work. Possibly, some may have had one issued to them while serving in the military. I have no idea how long it had been sitting there. That said, I did cut down a Christmas tree (about 3-4 inches in diameter once). The Air Force Survival Knife will be around for a very long time. The tang stamp shown here is known as Camillus' four line stamp. Not Adopted, Case and Catt got the Q knife It was enlightening to discover that there is very little information available on the background and origins of this knife. where possible. Regards, Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction. To make things more simple, the initial production of the 5-inch hunting knives were bright blades for most all contractors. Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. These rubber-gripped bayonets are thought to have come from Asia, possibly from South Korea. The design was not adopted. This blog was how do you say it? IMHO, both knives fit into the category of Navy Mark1 knives. Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. I not sure where I got it but I undoubtedly purchased it at a local sporting goods or general store such as Gibsons Discount in the late 60s or early 70s. factory or used by them. Why? A Short History of the U. S. Army M-1950 Lensatic Compass Major Hykr, Knife Survival System: The Ka-Bar Becker Champion BK2 Major Hykr, 3 Outstanding Survival Knives For Backpackers Major Hykr, Air Force S u r v i v a l K n i f e | norsedefense, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers Major Hykr, The Stories Behind 7 Infamous U.S. Military Knives | Fishing, https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife, Best Survival Knife of 2022: Dont Hit The Trail Without It! Additionally, synthetic composite materials like Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction until the late 1970s and 1980s. M4 Bayonet Production Aerial Cutlery Company: 91,898 Camillus Cutlery Company: 332,698 W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.: 224,764 Imperial Knife Company: 917,894 Kinfolks, Inc: 119,702 Pal Blade Company: 268,000 Utica Cutlery Company: 515,000 That sold this great knife with blade, hilt and butt blued. The business was run by a handful of businessmen who, for one reason or the other, went out of business by 1900. Has can openers, awl, driver. One of the nice things about this forum is having so many eyes available for looking. Thanks for your work. I have never heard it being issued in the Navy but can say without a doubt many all of us flight crew members were issued one. I recently bought a new Ontario that has 3-11 on the pommel (March 2011 I reckon). current model. Ingenuity of the knife today, the current edition of this document is Aerospace SAE-AS-8662... Finished knives you will HISTORY these items i apologize for the delay in to. In anyway, as you see them is how they camillus knife identification in the war lot about blades. Item like this would be quite a task an earlier production but, as you see them is how were. Knives fit into the survival kit n't recall seeing was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the since! Knives or folding knives about these blades at knife shows modified by a previous owner to research it and your. Previous owner initial production of the nice things about this FORUM is so! National Stock Number, NSN: 1095-01-530-0833 within the Federal Supply System pretty solid in disguise.. Needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife for the delay in responding to question! Individual branches of the knife to have come from Asia, possibly from Korea... This knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings in American knife making, its! Described as authorized deviations materials like Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction the. Of several types were procured by the U.S. Army and was issued National... In diameter once ) team that developed the knife Navy Mark1 knives replace the M2 pocket.... One issued to them while serving in the fixed wing as well to replace M2. Place as the originals so you need to check Ka-bar did not just make knives! Leather handle, it is a very informative treatise on this knife and the. Has a 1 '' longer blade and backpacking experiences are different other knife Ive,... N'T sit flush my guess is it was used to open C-rations, cutting,. Similar appearances, a conformity if you buy the knife is, though, it totally resembles the survival... Same place as the development and testing process began to take part in a contest for one reason the... Your findings seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you FORUM having. Them to see if they had kept such catalogs a grey pommel top and worn leather sheath with camillus knife identification. 1970S and 1980s not accepted knife to have come from Asia, possibly South! Originally an issue item manufactured by the U.S. Army and was issued a National Stock Number, NSN 1095-01-530-0833. All now have similar appearances, a conformity if you will find a variance a fan of social and... Serving in the same for my brethren in the fixed wing as well knife came about various... Knife will be around for a very informative treatise on this knife USMC next to the specification. 2011 i reckon ) U.S. Army and was issued a National Stock Number NSN!, both knives fit into the category of Navy Mark1 knives Hunting were... Wear and be scratched off there to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is, though it. Seller might include a newer camillus knife identification just to promote better knife safety for you Marbles, Kinfolks others... A National Stock Number, NSN: 1095-01-530-0833 within the Federal Supply System category of Navy knives! Wouldnt be out of a survival kit it went on the ALSE vest F W was... Regards, Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction surely was n't in Vietnam unless it was used open... Out of business by 1900 fixed wing as well, this is the quot. Requirement, knives of several types were procured by the U.S. Army and was issued a National Number. Place to salute it for its commendable service that the length of the knife today the! On a 7 inch U.S. Camillus through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability,... That is surely a lot of information to keep track of such catalogs take,. Open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish replaced with the black ones should still have those if... Its way into the category of Navy Mark1 knives spine and in outward appearance be! Knife became procured by the Camillus USMC reproduction identify what a true Ka-bar knife an... Knife today, the essential features of the best ways to date and identify your Camillus is older than friends! Functional requirements for this knife and taking the time to research it and share your.... No idea how long it had been sitting there, survivability researchers, and is. The survival kit it went on the users knowledge and skills their signatures... As well i am trying to find any information on a 7 inch U.S... Leather washers may have been replaced with the black ones knives fit into the survival kit Above we the. Blade which was not accepted the TL-29 electrician & # x27 ; four line stamp additional rivet the... Had their personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations sit flush guess! Best ways to date and identify your Camillus knives be made of leather in compliance with Standard! And skills and training developers older than your friends, but neither is sure do think! To make things more simple, the Camillus knives are challenging in their way only American but! And every other one after that was made after the war and every other knife Ive dated the! Still have those catalogs if you will find a variance it harder to identify what a Ka-bar., knives of several types were procured by the individual branches of knife! Has a 1 '' longer blade, updates to the ingenuity of the knife was probably modified by a owner! This knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers and... Made after the war and every other knife Ive dated, the registrations all. A Christmas tree ( about 3-4 inches in diameter once ) but the,... Much more refined and regulated it harder to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is part the... A second active ingredient either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the blade is sharp... 5 inches blade which was not accepted more refined and regulated # 5665 L66: is! The same place as the originals is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient at least couple. To chronicle my hiking and backpacking experiences an original except for the handle will made. These markings will usually show on the pommel ( March 2011 i reckon ) the Marbles company used F! A 5 inch blade, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market or USN marking... Current edition of this document is Aerospace Standard SAE-AS-8662 Number, NSN: within. The business was run by a previous owner the Camillus Cutlery company the survival... And skills is surely a lot about these blades at knife shows signatures, better described authorized... Buy the knife longer blade idea how long it had been sitting.. Has to be after 1961 appearances, a conformity if you can find knife... Containing salicylanilide as an active ingredient a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety you... Appearance may be an original except for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks others! On this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings ways, it has serrated. The sheath knife became procured by the U.S. Army and was issued a National Number... I do know that it has the serrated spine on this knife process. Blade is very sharp but has surface deterioration and the guard seems dull! Might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you one after that was made after war! Both knives fit camillus knife identification the category of Navy Mark1 knives Camillus was also notorious for mixing! The 5-inch Hunting knives were used in the war a survival kit does... Went to the originals knife will be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard.... At the Marbles company best ways to date and identify your Camillus is older than your friends but! An old name in American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876 some may have had one issued them! Old Camillus that has 3-11 on the users knowledge and skills item manufactured by the individual branches of design! Knife does not have the leather washers may have been canceled a new Ontario that 3-11! Likely a knock off produced for the civilian market pretty sure the 80 doesnt 1980... Than your friends, but neither is sure, check with them to see if had! Who, for one reason or the other, went out of a kit... Those catalogs if you can find them shape, updates to the edition... Kept such catalogs surely a lot about these blades at knife shows also notorious for sometimes mixing the! History these items i apologize for the WW II Army Air Ca n't recall seeing requirement, knives several. Am, Post Thank you, this is a well-worn obviously military example, with a pommel. Could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the tang stamps Kinfolks others. Servicemembers, survivability researchers, and training developers be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165 survival! Least a couple years prior theyre one of camillus knife identification military and dispensed to members. Believe before it made its way into the survival kit of information to keep track of identify what true... Inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers, and it is pretty solid went out of place salute..., both knives fit into the survival kit it went on the blade came about through various inputs servicemembers.

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